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Born vs Becoming Asexual

AussieAce
AussieAce
i feel like since birth i was asexual, as ive said before i told my mother when i was 3 that i didnt want to have sex that being said im trying to open my mind to knew thoughts. 

So im very uneducated in this Born vs Becoming Asexual  discussion and i think i have a one track mind and i need it to be expanned so id really love to hear everyone's opinions on this topic so i can better understand this so i can become a better and more informed asexual. 

These are the questions id love to hear peoples answers too and add more if you got better ones.
1. can you be born ace?
2. can you become ace? 
3. can you choose to be ace?
4. if you could would you become sexual?

Im here to learn because i was invited onto this site because i say the wonderful word 'Cunt' a whole lot and as lovely as that is i dont have the smartest opinions or knowledge on this issues discussed on this site so im here to be educated. 
«1

Comments

  • PiF
    PiF
    Posts: 644
    Just my opinions

    1..yes, it is the only way to be ace as it is without sexual attraction, meh. It's not like sexual repulsion which is with something through choice 

    2 yes and no...it might be that you knew that you were always asexual but never knew the name for it so for the yes this might make some sense. No it's not a career choice  or any choice at all

    3 No as mentioned above BUT I have seen the majority of sites like aven who are very relaxed with the majority of its members being sexuals thinking they are asexual that often are not and even then only in the short term

    4 No, being sex positive for a partner has managed to work with a partner on an agreed way forward. The only time the relationships have failed have been a lack of compatabilies in other areas as sex. Asexual has many positives,people trust me not to want to crack onto them and when a lot of your r/l friends are female, that is a good place to be

    As an individual you can call yourself whatever you want, that's your right but if you are trying to push something as accurate, it helps if it is.
    AussieAce
  • LordGrep
    LordGrep
    Posts: 2,686
    There are some people who are "Born that way", but equally the exact same lack of sexual attraction can be caused by other things. 

    It could be argued that everyone starts out as being asexual. As sexual attraction is something that tends to start on the onset of puberty. For some people it takes a lot longer than others for sexual attraction to start the so called "Late bloomers", also other people need to find the right person, and others it never happens at all, and in people like myself we have normal sexual attraction for a good chunk of their lives and then that disappears.

    Asexuality can by symptomatic of other things. It appears that this causal asexualty is way more prevalent than the straight "born with it" idea. 

    I view asexuality as a kin to something like blindness.

    Some people are born without sight, and are blind. Some people are born with other issues to which blindness is a symptom. The people might know why this is, and yet they are still blind. Some people might go through some trauma, or a disease that results in blindness. These people are also blind.

    Asexuality simply says that a person does not feel sexual attraction, and this symptom can be a thing unto, and, and of it's self, but at the end of the day there is no real merit in distinguishing the two. Some people seem to want to ignore everything other than those who have been born without sexual attraction to fit a narotive in order to suggest that asexaulity is on the same footing as homosexuality and the like. I think that this is one of it's manifestations, but is actually only a very small percentage of the group as a whole.

    Some people dislike this approach as it leaves asexuality especially in the young as something that is something that they might grow out of. But no one knows what they will feel like in the future, and as it has been demonstrated some people do find out they are not asexual in the future, but for the time they thought they were there is nothing that can be differentiated between those that will be asexual for life, and those that grow out of it in some way. 

    The worry for me has always been that people would avoid sexual situations because they have given themselves a label, and there needs to be significantly more education in this community to highlight the danger of adopting labels, and also more support for these people in order that they know that it is fine, and a good thing to loose the label of asexuality, and it is not something that is damaging to the group as a whole in recognition. 

    Asexuality should be a descriptive definition, and not a prescriptive one.

    In short, asexuals are asexual no matter what the cause, and no matter how long it lasts (obviously not hours), and no matter at what point in life asexuality manifests it's self. 
  • AussieAce
    AussieAce
    Posts: 642
    but that being said just because you lack the desire for sex you cant just say youre asexual...i mean old age can make people not want sex that doesnt mean they arent heterosexual anymore, if you had sex for years with women and loved it youre a sexual. just means they arent wanting sex anymore because there body doesnt produce the hormones or what not for it. 

  • PiF
    PiF
    Posts: 644
    I've never felt the desire argument is valid. I check the dictionary and desire

     As a noun......a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen
    As a Verb......strongly wish for or want (something).

    both indicate want....asexuality has nothing to do with want, I'm sure you can see the issue

    The other part...
    In short, asexuals are asexual no matter what the cause, and no matter how long it lasts (obviously not hours), and no matter at what point in life asexuality manifests it's self. 

    Why not hours if you are using that analogy? who has detemined days is okay but hours are not?

    which is why by all means fall into the trap aven has of every man and his dog can call themselves asexuals at any time but....you cannot ask others to believe asexuality is real when you treat who and when the person claims it, ....claims it like a netflix selection
    AussieAce
  • cavalier080854
    cavalier080854
    Posts: 2,175
    I'm very much born that way. Nothing has changed over the decades, many opportunities and chances as well as certainties. Nothing, nada. If the possibility had existed then it would have happened, it is probably hard wired, if not then, but is now.
  • LordGrep
    LordGrep
    Posts: 2,686
    I really don't know what to do with much of this discussion as I can only tell people how I feel (or don't) and there is only one word that fits with what I am, and that is "Asexual".

    I do not look at any other human beings and think about sex. I don't look at any other peoples body parts, and feel sexually aroused in any way. I don't like watching people even kissing, it's rather off putting. I have felt this way for nearly 10 years. I have no libido, and I have no attraction sexually towards anyone, nor any feelings of wanting sex, etc... 

    And personally if an old person feels the same way I do then why are they not asexual. 

    I feel that many people insist that asexuality must be some sort of "born that way" thing, but as with my "Blindness" analogy, asexuality can be a symptom of other issues, it doesn't make anyone any more or less asexual.

    If you don't think I am asexual, then please tell me what you think I am, as the only thing that makes me different is the fact that I wasn't born this way.  
    TheKarret
  • cavalier080854
    cavalier080854
    Posts: 2,175
    I'm fine with seeing people kissing. I did stare when I had my first look at gays doing it. But that was just curiosity. Even being kissed, provided that it is forewarned. Unexpected contact makes me jump, but again that is just invading personal space.
    Watching Porn is just, meh, not interested, once you see it for the first time every other time is just a variation on it.
  • VibrantGlue
    VibrantGlue
    Posts: 71
    1) Yes, I tihnk so. When I was 5, I told my parents I wanted to be a nun. Maybe something about not being in a relationship was appealing to me at that young age. I always had an inkling that I was different, never had an inclination to find a mate. I was more of a loner. Never understood why people dated. Also could be the more aromantic part of me.

    2) Yes. I agree with @LordGrep . His views opened my eyes into people changing into being ace. Before I thought it had to be a lifelong condition.

    3) No, it's not a choice. Some may find sex repulsing but that is not the same as never wanting sex.

    4) No idea. That's like asking if I could, would I want all my fingers. It's something that I've adapted to, I don't know how I would use all my fingers, probably be quite clumsy and forget they were there.
  • cavalier080854
    cavalier080854
    Posts: 2,175
    I'm getting bored with the whole Asexuality debate. I never gave it any thought till I joined AVEN in 2016. It just is. After all my close friends were in on what I was, it has never come up again. I just like, as I have always liked, the name ASEXUAL, it fits me like a glove or an old pair of carpet slippers. All the rest of the labels are just guilding the lily.
    AussieAceLordGrepKazkaaro
  • Kazka
    Kazka
    Posts: 422
    Pretty much my thoughts on it, if you don't have sexual attraction then you're asexual I don't think it's there's too much to be complicated about it it doesn't matter when how where why that happened so long as that is currently the case
  • AussieAce
    AussieAce
    Posts: 642 edited January 31
    so a married man gets on a pill that kills is sex drive for 3 weeks...is he ace for those 3 weeks. 
    because i think that man is a sexual person who is in a medically induced nonsexual state..but he isnt suddenly an asexual. 
    even if he takes this pill forever he is still a sexual person but is due to a medication not sexual. but he doesnt just get to be asexual. 

    if youre gay youre gay, if youre bi youre bi, if youre herto youre hetero and if your ace your ace, you cant just be something else one day unless that how you always were. 

  • cavalier080854
    cavalier080854
    Posts: 2,175
    AussieAce said:
    so a married man gets on a pill that kills is sex drive for 3 weeks...is he ace for those 3 weeks. 
    because i think that man is a sexual person who is in a medically induced nonsexual state..but he isnt suddenly an asexual. 
    even if he takes this pill forever he is still a sexual person but is due to a medication not sexual. but he doesnt just get to be asexual. 
    @LordGrep Would be the expert on this as he fits this explanation.
    AussieAce
  • AussieAce
    AussieAce
    Posts: 642
    AussieAce said:
    so a married man gets on a pill that kills is sex drive for 3 weeks...is he ace for those 3 weeks. 
    because i think that man is a sexual person who is in a medically induced nonsexual state..but he isnt suddenly an asexual. 
    even if he takes this pill forever he is still a sexual person but is due to a medication not sexual. but he doesnt just get to be asexual. 
    @LordGrep Would be the expert on this as he fits this explanation.
    I'd like other peoples views because he will just disagree with what I said in a major way

  • Kazka
    Kazka
    Posts: 422 edited January 31
    AussieAce said:
    so a married man gets on a pill that kills is sex drive for 3 weeks...is he ace for those 3 weeks. 
    because i think that man is a sexual person who is in a medically induced nonsexual state..but he isnt suddenly an asexual. 
    even if he takes this pill forever he is still a sexual person but is due to a medication not sexual. but he doesnt just get to be asexual. 

    if youre gay youre gay, if youre bi youre bi, if youre herto youre hetero and if your ace your ace, you cant just be something else one day unless that how you always were. 

    If for whatever reason he wanted to identify as asexual for 3 weeks whatever, I don't care. He'd be a f****** idiot, but if that's really what he wants to do then f*** it. So long as he isn't hurting anybody.

    I think you'd have to be pretty dishonest with not only other people, but yourself as well in order to do that.
    AussieAce
  • LordGrep
    LordGrep
    Posts: 2,686
    I think the effects have to be chronic, IE the symptoms have to have been unchanged for a reasonable time period. Sure someone could claim that "Today I am asexual", but they would be idiots. 

    There are many people who have no sexual attraction because of drugs. I have spoken about this before. There is a group of people who are chemically castrated, they have their libido removed because their sexual attraction is towards children. Now because it's nasty, you would not want to include them in the asexual category BUT the very same drugs are used by people transitioning M2F and many people are happy including them as asexual people.

    I have discussed with my doctor what would happen if I eventually came off the morphine, as I might end up having a relationship with another asexual, and thus regaining my sexuality would be an issue for me, and I think I would keep things the same as they are at the moment. I think that I would want to continue not having sexual feelings regardless. I prefer not having them. 

    My asexuality is different to many of the people here, but everyone asexuality seems to differ between each person. @AussieAce you do not want to even touch someone, but others have no problems with touch. We all are different from one another, and this is why coming up with a definition is so hard, if not an impossible because everyone hears the definition of asexuality, and figures "That applies to me", and then many people think that their own experience is the only right experience of asexuality, and that it has to be a certain way. This is why the "Born with it" model and the non causal model are not correct, as many many many people can point to things that may have caused their feelings to be the way they are.

    Again, would you call a blind person less blind because it is something they were not born with?

    Further, you would not call someone blind just cos they have their eyes closed would you?


  • aro
    aro
    Posts: 104
    I don't really know if people are born with a certain sexuality. I've been wondering this issue when it comes to psychopathy and if some people are just born as psychopaths. Because sexuality is just kinda boring for me.

    I'd say you have a tendency towards one sexuality. Like a percentage. For some it's higher and for some it's a lot weaker to change. I doubt anyone's born 100% asexual or 100% gay. There's some statistics of how gay people tend to have a lot of older siblings too. But I don't think you could choose your sexuality or we would hear about it more. Even brainwashing and strong faith in god (not our friend Grep) doesn't seem to help.

    Personally I think there's a high possibility I became asexual. I have two siblings and our early childhood was pretty messed-up. I reacted to it very differently from them so maybe it made me aro ace and gave my siblings some other shit to deal with.

    Aromanticism seems a lot more like an environmental thing than asexuality to me. Not necessarily caused by bad things per se, but a friend of mine told me her parents weren't very affectionate when she grew up so she thinks it could have had to do with her aromanticism.
    LordGrep
  • Gloomy
    Gloomy
    Posts: 262 edited January 31
    I do believe that eventhough you don’t choose your sexuality, you’re not always born with it. My own mother used to be attracted to men(obviously, since my sister and I exist :p  ), but now she’s only attracted to women. So yes to the first two questions and no to the third. As for the fourth question, I personally see no logical reason for me to become sexual. I don’t want kids and I’m fine with being single, so I don’t need sex for procreation or for pleasing a partner, and I can’t think of any other reasons I’d possibly need sex.
    LordGrep
  • PiF
    PiF
    Posts: 644 edited January 31
    I've just been going back through aven, there is a thread that was started with a poll in June 2014
    http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/104713-defining-asexuality-a-better-definition/

    It took some time but I went all the way through the 67 pages to the last entry in November of last year.

    What was striking is some of the members who made comments in the early years, who pronounced their asexuality was beyond question  and the definition is desire....are still in in aven and very comfortable now in saying they are sexual and not asexual.

    This kinda highlights the danger in a short term view of the asexual definition debate with the majority of the forum members who are not long term. Even more so in a forum that largely exists on 6-12 month members

    This isn't particular to aven or asexuality but is definitely relevant to those of the  sexual identity and gender network
  • LordGrep
    LordGrep
    Posts: 2,686
    Do you know how many who chose "attraction" as the "real" definition have become sexual?

    The problem with asexuality as a whole is that many people will become sexual later in life. It's pretty normal especially when you consider the majority of young women identify as asexual, but they do not wake up sexually until a lot later in life than men tend to. 

    One cannot see in to the future, and in my mind it is impossible to tell if anyone will later in life stop being asexual, so how can anyone say for certain they will always be the same way? 
  • cavalier080854
    cavalier080854
    Posts: 2,175
    @LordGrep TIME
  • LordGrep
    LordGrep
    Posts: 2,686
  • cavalier080854
    cavalier080854
    Posts: 2,175
    @LordGrep I mean time is the only sure fire way of proving whether you will stop being Asexual.
  • LordGrep
    LordGrep
    Posts: 2,686
    Well yeah @cavalier080854 the only real time you can say "I am asexual" is right after your last breath.
    aro
  • Kazka
    Kazka
    Posts: 422 edited January 31
    I think adding 'long term' to the 'diagnosis' is a good idea.

    And after saying that, I think we could have both a definition, and a diagnosis. Definition is short and to the point. 'diagnosis' can be like additional was, like time.
  • AussieAce
    AussieAce
    Posts: 642 edited January 31
    I think the problem I'm having @lordgrep is that you can decided you know what I want to have sex again and start taking different medication that will stop your pain and increase you libido. Whereas I can't do anything to not be ace because I am ace. Its like you're a man wearing a blindfold claiming to be blind where as I'm actually blind. 

    I mean im just so unsure what to think about this topic. Its very conflicting. 
  • Kazka
    Kazka
    Posts: 422 edited February 1
    It's more like he's taking medicine that helps him live, but unfortunately makes him blind. It's It's not as" oh I don't want to be blind" he doesn't have much of a choice and he said even if he did he would choose to be asexual. Sounds like medically-induced asexuality to me.
  • Reptillian
    Reptillian
    Posts: 181
    AussieAce said:
    i feel like since birth i was asexual, as ive said before i told my mother when i was 3 that i didnt want to have sex that being said im trying to open my mind to knew thoughts. 

    So im very uneducated in this Born vs Becoming Asexual  discussion and i think i have a one track mind and i need it to be expanned so id really love to hear everyone's opinions on this topic so i can better understand this so i can become a better and more informed asexual. 

    These are the questions id love to hear peoples answers too and add more if you got better ones.
    1. can you be born ace?
    2. can you become ace? 
    3. can you choose to be ace?
    4. if you could would you become sexual?

    Im here to learn because i was invited onto this site because i say the wonderful word 'Cunt' a whole lot and as lovely as that is i dont have the smartest opinions or knowledge on this issues discussed on this site so im here to be educated. 
    1. Everyone is born ace by default, but most people end up seemingly heterosexual.

    2. Sexuality all lies within the brain, and changes to the brain can also affect sexuality. So yes, your sexuality can indeed change long-term.

    3. Under the deterministic philosophy, no. In general, not even that as there is zero cases where sexuality can be chosen as if it was magic.

    4. I been sexual, and I'm going to say no. Life as an asexual is far better.
  • Toffington
    Toffington
    Posts: 742
    I feel that I was "made" asexual, but my avoidance to humans has persisted for as long as I could remember. So I am not entirely sure if its genetic, or upbringing. I think it is both.

    I was locked in a room a lot when I was a toddler, or left to my own devices with no interactions from other people. I don't ever remember interacting with people much at all to be honest. Sure I have your occasional memory of your dad teaching you to tie your shoes, but those were few and far between. I mostly remember walking into a room of adults, and then walking out or leaving because no one interacted with me. The only interactions I had to other people most of the time, were my cousins and strangers for the longest time. Each day was unpredictable, and I never spent my time with any sense of emotional bearing. I went to my cousins, and played Pokemon all day on gameboy. I went home and watched TV usually by myself or with my siblings. I played by myself in the back yard digging holes. Or I ran away from home, and decided to live in the woods. Hardly any of my earliest memories involved doing things with my family. None of my memories, bear any emotional significance. So I've a feeling, since I was so horribly neglected growing up. I failed to develop intimacy, love, and interest in people. I'm sure if my family was responsive to me, the quiet kid. I would have turned out much better than I did. 

    I've talked to my sister about our childhood, her being a mother of two kids. I asked her what I was like to her as a kid. She explained that I never did "anything". What that meant, I am not sure. I assumed she meant I didn't interact with people. My sister had no problem developing intimate relationships with people. She enjoys sex. My two brothers, turned into transsexuals, and I am somewhat sure they both like sex. (though both gay(?) 

    So this leads me into believing sometimes, that I was born asexual. Back to square one I guess. 
    cavalier080854
  • Kazka
    Kazka
    Posts: 422 edited February 1
    AussieAce said:
    i feel like since birth i was asexual, as ive said before i told my mother when i was 3 that i didnt want to have sex that being said im trying to open my mind to knew thoughts. 

    So im very uneducated in this Born vs Becoming Asexual  discussion and i think i have a one track mind and i need it to be expanned so id really love to hear everyone's opinions on this topic so i can better understand this so i can become a better and more informed asexual. 

    These are the questions id love to hear peoples answers too and add more if you got better ones.
    1. can you be born ace?
    2. can you become ace? 
    3. can you choose to be ace?
    4. if you could would you become sexual?

    Im here to learn because i was invited onto this site because i say the wonderful word 'Cunt' a whole lot and as lovely as that is i dont have the smartest opinions or knowledge on this issues discussed on this site so im here to be educated. 
    1. Everyone is born ace by default, but most people end up seemingly heterosexual.

    2. Sexuality all lies within the brain, and changes to the brain can also affect sexuality. So yes, your sexuality can indeed change long-term.

    3. Under the deterministic philosophy, no. In general, not even that as there is zero cases where sexuality can be chosen as if it was magic.

    4. I been sexual, and I'm going to say no. Life as an asexual is far better.
    I don't think that's the case, else gay camps wouldn't be as criminal. look up Jesus camp, you can't force it. And I definitely don't agree that people are Ace by default, I think most of it would come down to nature, rather that nurture, but specifically with asexuality nurture plays a big part. It's evolutionary positive that people are attracted to the opposite gender so that only makes sense.

    And... yes, it does lie in the brain, however, so do all your other instinctual thoughts, which sexuality predominantly is.

    Things can change, but that's highly improbable, and I'm not talking about: A psychological issues that make you not attracted to folks, and B Medical issues or drugs that alter mind & libido.
  • LordGrep
    LordGrep
    Posts: 2,686
    First off @AussieAce I never knew that taking the drugs that I do would kill off my libido. I never knew that I would loose my sexuality. I have as it happens tried lots of different treatments for the pain I suffer, and only one works. I don't take morphine because I want to be asexual. I take morphine BECAUSE I am in a metric fuck ton of pain. 

    I have no idea what would happen if I stopped taking the morphine to my sexuality. Personally I have become so used to not feeling any sexual feelings at all, I am happy to stay the way I am. I have not been offered any treatment to regain my sexuality, and I haven't asked. 

    You do make it sound like I had some choice in the way I am now, and I didn't. At the moment I don't have any choice in stopping the medication either. I try once a year to come off the morphine, but so far the pain has been too severe. I am starting at a new pain clinic some time soon, and we will see what magic they come up with. 

    I get the fact that you ( @AussieAce ) feel pissed off because you would like to have sexuality, and you see me as making a choice. At the moment though there is no choice BUT given the choice I prefer 0greps libido, and no sexual anything, than I would going back to the way I was. 

    A person is either sexual, or not, ( some may say that there is a spectrum though I am not so sure about it ). I am definitely not sexual, I haven't been for nearly 10 years,  and there are no real hopes of me being able to chose. Life has put me in the position I am in now, not me, I am just in an unusual position where by I might be able to make a choice, and I am pretty sure the choice I would make. 

    I feel that I have something quite unique to add to this community in that I have experienced both sides. But think of me how you like it makes no odds to the way I feel, I can't help that.
    Kazka
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